3 Problems with Job Apps and Racialism

Venturing Out | Reminder #B8
As you venture onto the job hunt, prepare to get forced into categories you might not belong in.

I don’t consider myself a biological anthropologist. I’m a sociocultural type. Yet, I still know a thing or two about race issues. The biology of race, or lack thereof, got beaten into me during anthro school. I’ve worked for UF’s Institute of Black Culture, and its Institute of Hispanic-Latino Cultures. I’ve even written about race issues for The Huffington Post, on American Anthropological Association’s behalf.

What has all that taught me? Well, if you traveled the entire world on foot, you’d probably notice populations’ skin tones changing and blending almost seamlessly. This seamlessness pretty much renders exclusive racial categories like "black" and "white" useless to biologists. Indeed, races often come from cultural imagination, not biological fact. As such, racial categories awkwardly flux between cultures. For example, although today’s Americans label Italians "white," they thought otherwise only a couple generations ago. Of course, Italian biology hasn’t really changed since then. Only American culture changed.

As I’ve ventured onto the job hunt, however, something struck me. Although race isn’t biological fact, it still thrusts itself into America’s legislation, job market, and economy. Nearly every job application demands my race, in the name of fulfilling federal requirements. Worse yet, I’m forced to answer via multiple choice. As a Mediterranean-American, I don’t really identify with any of the given racial choices. The above illustration describes three other problematic examples.

How do you feel about race on job applications? How well do you fit into the given racial categories? Can you think of other examples that don’t fit into the given racial categories? Of course, any other thoughts are welcome, too. I put a lot of thought into these posts, and I sure do love it when people leave comments. Even short, stupid ones. So be awesome, and click here to say something. No registration nor email required. Yay, free speech!

ONLY 84 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AWESOME ENOUGH TO COMMENT. THIS IS NOT ENOUGH!

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Choon says:

First up, an excellent write-up! You are good in handling words in a diplomatic matter! I really liked the fact that you weren’t anchoring your thoughts with certain political or social standpoint (unlike most articles I had read, unfortunately)

Second, I really don’t see a reason why a person’s ethnicity will matter when it comes to job application. As much as many claimed we are living in a post-modern and a post-structuralism age, I think I’m gonna hold that thought a little. It seems, categorizing and fitting people into the ‘supposed forms’ are not that irrelevant to the human nature after all. In fact, just for the exposure, back in my country -Malaysia, issues regarding race and ethnicity has proved to be more problematic than it appears to be. Anyway, that’s just beside the point. The main issue here is, no matter how you seek to ‘classify’ people according to their ethnic origins, it still doesn’t cancel out the obvious fact that we were ALL from the same beginning. Like you said, we might not be biological anthropologists, but hey, when globalization and hybridization are common occurrences in this century according to most people, does it matter if I’m Asian and you’re White? Ultimately, nothing stands on its own and towards the end, we are all humans, tragically separated by symbols, ideologies and decades of geographical moldings.

Perhaps, for the simple purpose of data collection and tally, it is still tolerable to some extent but to segregate the workforce via racial determination? Sorry mate, that to me, is ancient history.

Ashkuff says:

Thank you for the compliments, Choon! However, I must confess that my thoughts ARE anchored in a specific social standpoint: the standpoint that “race” is culturally imagined.

To answer your question: a person’s race “matters” on US job applications, because out Gov’t tries to ensure an equal mix of race in the workplace. It’s a way to compensate for our history of slavery, segregation, and all-around discrimination.

I agree with you, though. As globalization continues, race loses practical relevance.

Piesmiter says:

I agree with Choon. And if we really are trying to move past our history of racism and discrimination, the best way to show that is to NOT have race on our applications!

j. Wilde says:

Check out the movie “Baby Doll”, 1956, based on a Tennessee William’s play. Italians are not considered white in this movie; although, the point was reportedly overshadowed by the condemnation of the Catholic League of Decency for erotic content. Check out 1949′s “Pinky”. Although white-skinned and a registered nurse, Pinky is discriminated against because one of her parent’s was “colored”.

It doesn’t seem to have as much to do with skin pigment or ethnicity, as it does with the relative perception of the majority and their positive or negative response to it. There are Internet surveys that claim ~50% of Americans do not consider Italians white. I’m second generation American from Italian immigrants. On these forms, I choose “other” and write in Italian or Mediterranean.

it’s interesting that the job application form says choose a reporting requirement, not an ethnicity. You have to “report” who you are? Didn’t we do that in the Census? If we must report who we are, I suggest a one-liner: “How would you describe yourself?” Isn’t that what’s really important?

Ashkuff says:

Oh, hey! That’s a good idea, referencing period theater. Some of the slurs people could say on camera back then would never fly today.

As for being asked for your “race,” rather than “ethnicity?” In my experience, people like to pretend that race is biological, and that ethnicity is cultural. Of course, from an anthropological perspective, race and ethnicity are BOTH culturally imagined.

Anonymous says:

Thank you for posting this awesome, but complex subject for further review! It is more important than you know!

Ashkuff says:

No problem!

Pablo G. Rodriguez says:

I´m so happy this kind of stuff has not arrived yet to Argentina, though it can be addopted one of these days. First of all general public don´t speak about “race” here. It´s northamericans who are worried about it in such terms. So far in this country if someone were asked about his/her race when applying for a job that person would feel discriminated. It is like asking what´s your political ideology or your sexual preference or if you have VIH. Once you have this information you can give that person a special, different treatment. And that is considered discrimination and rejected.
But that is how common people thinks. Goverments are influenced by United Nations stupidity which seeks “positive discrimination” and ONG activists who follows “affirmative action”, and then discriminate in their fight against discrimination ?-\ . For example some afro-argentines complain that black people here are “made invisible” because our population census don´t ask people about (not their “race”, but) if they are “afro-descendants”. But OTHER afro-argentines don´t agree that asking that question would be a good idea. Even these people don´t call themselves “afro-argentines”, but simply “argentines”. You know what?. Our last census asked the question in a pilot extra questionaire designed by activists and World Bank representatives.
In my experience United Nations´s stupidity is unstoppable and that´s why I think your situation is probably our future.
I saw recently a good film about racial wars in EEUU that I would recomend: Freddom writers. It is based in real facts. And I think that kind of problems wouldn´t exist if nobody would care about “race”.
I would also recomend the book “Constructing the Polítical Spectacle” by Edelman Murray, which shows how some policies can create or deepen the problems they are supposed to solve. This is the case with race.
Thanks for sharing your thought with us. Hugs.

Ashkuff says:

Hmmm. So racism isn’t as big a deal in South America? I was under the impression that there was a lot of tension between Native South American descendants and European descendants. Beats me, though. South American politics isn’t forte.

Mimi says:

Don’t you just love me AL, I don’t have a blog so you know that everything I tell you comes from my head and my cyber lips and not from the need or even subconscious desire to be noticied.
*winks*
In order for me to comment I would have to use some labelling and then I would end up calling myself a coloured female which is what I am.

I have already had a heated argument with an African American man about why I am proud to be called cloured. See in Cape Town, calling someone coloured is not derrogatory in any way. You merley informing your audience that the person you are referring to is neither black nor white and is extremely good looking. In fact i’m alittle miffed that Americans called kudos on that word, I feel like I have been robbed of my heritage.

Too cut a long story short in SA we have what is called Black Economic Empowerement. It was put in place after Apartheid to help lighten the stain left by it..
It basically ensures that black men and women are first in line when jobs are on offer.

It doesn’t matter which idustry and it doesn’t matter who’s the boss, if the job is available, the hiring person will look for black people first. Some call this reverse racism.
Do you?

Also, me being a coloured (Malay) female means that i too benefit from this selection process in that I am selected above any white candidate. I’m no expert but I have eyes and my best friend (white male) was jobless for three years because of this. It got so bad that he wanted to lie on his application form and say he was coloured. He didn’t of course, after I assured him that he could never pass as coloured even if he got a tan. So in South Africa the colour of your skin plays a vital role in what job you get.

Ashkuff says:

(bursts with excitement) Mimi! You’re back! Popular as my blog’s becoming, I’ve missed your contributions in particular.

Sorry America made “colored” seem like a bad word. For what it’s worth, many of my own were considered colored for some time, but took pride in their “olive” complexions.

As for Black Economic Empowerment? I applaud SA’s attempts to make good on Apartheid. We did something a little similar in the US, to make good on segregation. We call it “Affirmative Action.” Although I’m unfamiliar with the legislation itself, people tell me that it makes businesses meet quotas of racial diversity. That said, I’m fuzzy on the details.

That said, I fear that Affirmative Action, and perhaps Black Economic Empowerment, unintentionally suggests that some people (like blacks) AREN’T CAPABLE ENOUGH compete for jobs without a handicap. Don’t get me wrong, I know plenty of very capable blacks. I’m just afraid that these policies demean their abilities.

On a more selfish note, as something of a businessperson myself, I resent it when politicians meddle with my enterprise. Doesn’t matter if they’re waving new hiring policies or tax breaks in my face. I just want them to back off a little, and let me work.

You’re Malay? I’d have never guessed. Goes to show how undependable some racial systems can be.

Mimi says:

I’m so happy that your’re so happy to “see” me.
America does make coloured seem like a bad word, we even spell it differently, Google knows it, Wish everyone else would catch a wake up.

I asked an African American man about Affirmitive Action and he said that it’s necessary. That’s all I’m saying.

I really liked Piesmiter’s definition on racism, going to store that under, “That is a very cool way of thinking! Wish I was so smart.”

Yes I am Malay. You sound like you know what that means, somehow I don’t think you do.

Please reply on the FAQ page, lets keep the conversation rolling, I have assignments due from Uni and it’s all about symbolism, going over my head as usual. Need some help man.

*un- pauses Skyrim*

Ashkuff says:

Note that I never called Affirmative Action unnecessary. I only fear that it demeans the people it’s supposed to help. (shrugs to self)

Piesmiter can be surprisingly insightful, can’t he?

I probably don’t know what “Malay” means to you, but I do know what it means to forensic anthropologists. (Laughs Out Loud) Surely, I only see a small part of the picture.

Huh? You commented on the FAQ? I’ll go check.

Mimi says:

So what does being Malay mean to a Forensic Anthropologists, I don’t know any to ask.
Know a few I can stalk? (laughs)

I totally agree with you about Affirmative Action, demeaning abilities, Black Economic Empowerement does the same.

Piesmiter says:

I agree with you, Mimi, you should be allowed to be called whatever you like. Nobody should say you ‘have’ to be called ‘African American’ or whatever – and given the number of white Africa natives isn’t that a foolish phrase?

I wouldn’t call the Black Economic Empowerment program you mentioned ‘reverse racism’, because racism isn’t white vs black, it’s somebody vs somebody else on the basis of race. That’s it. As a white male in a very politically-correct area of the United States, I have many times heard the phrase ‘reverse racism’ and I can’t stand it.

I do think that it may have been a worthwhile idea shortly after Apartheid to counter the prevailing trend of racism, but like Affirmative Action here I think it may have outlived its usefulness.

Always good to read somebody else’s opinion!

-V says:

Oh God. There’s always a post on Student Doctor Network (a popular forum Premeds go for advice on how to get into medical school) right around application time that says something like this. “I’m White, but I lived in Africa for a time. Can I put African American on my application?”

The answer always comes back as “Yeah, that’s going to back fire once you show up to interview.”

But the interesting thing is that we not only have to put in an excessive application, but we have to submit photos. And you know this, because you personally helped me take the picture in your apartment! The whole process of race and looks on an application is bizzare to me. But there it is, completely laid out and institutionalized.

Ashkuff says:

Huh. See, I think there’s a difference between “living in Africa for a time” versus “being African.” Appearances aside, visiting Africa doesn’t make you African, but being BORN and RAISED in Africa does. Just s, of how pale you look to an interviewer, if you were born and raised in Africa, then immigrated to America, how could you NOT be “African American?”

Anonymous says:

Thank you Piesmiter. How do you pronounce it? My Capetonian accent says, “Peasmighter.” *Is that right*

I just know your name has a really cool story behind it, do tell, I’m all ears.

Thank you for sharing your mind, I needed to hear this, “…you should be allowed to be called whatever you like.” Made me smile.

Piesmiter says:

You can pronounce it however you like and I’ll count it as correct. It doesn’t necessarily have a ‘cool’ story behind it so much as a very odd story behind it.

I’m glad my thoughts picked up your day. It may just be because I’m white and apparently my kind rule the world, but I just don’t see what the problem is with someone being allowed to self-identify however they want.

Mimi says:

Well, are you going to share the odd story? *puppy dog look*

Mimi says:

AL *shouts* your blog is messing with me again,
I said something else and now it’s gone.

Mimi says:

Oh *thumps head* it called me Anonymous. I’m glad you finally got to meet airhead Mimi. I promise to never shout at you or your blog again.

Ashkuff says:

(Laughs Out Loud)

Lanfia says:

“..I have already had a heated argument with an African American man about why I am proud to be called coloured.” – Hey! I know this African American man and the individual in question discussed was definitely “all day black”

Teresa Hubley says:

Here’s my rant: As far as the categories on that application, those are standard federal categories and, yes, they are really blunt instruments. They have been little help to me on my juvenile justice project, since we are concerned with following up on issues qualitative data tell us are present with African immigrant communities that are just not visible in the various data streams we have available for arrest and incarceration.

I am also involved in a SNAP-Ed project (i.e. the education part of the “food stamps” program) and we are required to collect the sort of data being solicited on the application for a tracking system called EARS. I have been privy to a couple “conversations” between the Feds and rooms full of people like me who have had to struggle with this requirement. Staff themselves have trouble answering those questions, as evidenced by the ladies of vaguely Central American descent who derailed our first training (as well they should have) for over half an hour expressing their confusion about how they would fill the form out. Entire groups of trainees have been put off and even scared away by this intrusive request. Our tribal healthy eating project partners gave us an earful. But the Feds are unmoved—they still want this data, which, as far as we can tell, doesn’t do any earthly good at all.

So, the request you saw on this app may be related to some kind of requirement but it’s an excellent question as to what end its collection really serves. I realize that, in the context of SNAP-Ed, the idea is to assure resources are being “fairly distributed” but do we really get that out of this data? I

Ashkuff says:

Such wonderful professional insights! Interesting to note, most job apps ask me if I (or anybody in my family) has ever been involved in your SNAP program. What’s with that?

Lauren Kent says:

I used to laugh so hard – it was 1995, fresh out of Apartheid South Africa and living in the new democratic South Africa. I was eight years old. We’d come back into the country after seven years of living in Botswana. I had to fill in a form in my new school. Was I African, European, Indian or Other. Well, obviously I was not European, I was African, this continent had birthed me. So I ticked African of course. And got laughed at so hard because I was apparently European??? It took a while to realise that European is synonymous with white. Which I find ridiculous, because you also get non-white Europeans. That has since changed at least!

I want to ask Americans – do you guys have a problem with the term African American?

Ashkuff says:

To answer your question: “African American” has been the politically correct phrase for a while, now. However, it seems to be losing ground to “black” recently. Afterall, there are plenty of black people in the US who dont identify with Africa at all!

Robert Tian says:

Employment discriminations have indentified everywhere in various forms. For instance, in China and other Eastern Asian countries, there is a strong age discrimination for job hunters.

Thank you for sharing with us your findings.

Ashkuff says:

Age discrimination, huh? Favoring youngsters, or elders?

Me says:

Another example. Putting “white” down in the U.S. when the majority of one’s life has been spent in another country (a different cultural/linguistic/class/national/regional identity environment). We all know these categories exist in order to assure a nice wide diversity of employees… but to be excluded from being a part of a diverse spectrum because of the color of one’s skin is always a desperate feeling when trying to fill these things out and be honestly accountable to, and acknowledge, the privileges of whiteness while simultaneously experiencing the erasure of experience/memory/language.

Ashkuff says:

Oh, wow. Good point. I wonder how many immigrant jobseekers are even FAMILIAR with America’s race system. I’ve been here my whole life, and I barely get it.

Daniel Muraga says:

I agree with your assertions here. Is race acquired or inherited or even ascribed to? Are we correct in describing people as white or black? Are there grey ones for that matter? Does race really suggest an individual’s professional or career prowess? Does geographical orientation equal your race? are there better terms to describe human variations? Do we need these racial descriptions in this modern time? Do we expect to hear an internet race maybe in future?
unfortunately, it seems we still have a long way to go to get answers to these questions. Good luck in your job search.

Ashkuff says:

Great questions, all.
And thanks for the good wishes.

Barry R. Bainton says:

The problem is cultural turned legalistic. Race, as a biological term for a subset of a species, is a classification that distinguishes between populations. When a biological characteristic is used to create a social distinction within a population and between a population, that characteristic becomes cultural in meaning.

When I was beginning my undergraduate anthropological studies, Carlton Coon came out with his book, The Origin of Races. It was quite controversial, especially as the Civil Rights movement was building up steam in 1963. Coon proposed a very simple biological definition for race = a breeding population sharing a common gene pool. This is a workable technical definition. It fails, however, to address the cultural aspects of the concept in the public culture.

Instead race and ethnicity which is a term for classifying and distinguishes between groups based with shared cultural heritage, became, in the vulgar, synonymous. Once made official by being encoded in the legal system we are stuck with the system and employers are struggling to CYA their exposure. The forms make no logical or technical sense but they satisfy the legal requirement.

As anthropologists, we should be able to see the irony in the situation.

Ashkuff says:

I kinda like Coon’s defination of race, as you describe it. Problem is, it would prove impractical for legal and social matters, because it would allow for hundreds (maybe thousands) of races, and it would require just as many genome mappings.

Piesmiter says:

This is probably a stupid question, but do you think this Carlton Coon’s findings have anything to do with the use of ‘coon’ as a slur against blacks? It just occurred to me.

Ashkuff says:

Good question. I was afraid to ask, myself.

Todd says:

Although it is not an issue on the job app that you used in your example, there is very often a category for “Asian/Pacific Islander” on forms such as this. The Asian/Pacific Islander category is very confusing for many reasons. This drives my wife (who is Tongan) crazy because she is ethnically and culturally Polynesian, which has nothing to do with being Asian.

The “Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander” category on this form still is not perfect. While we know that Native Hawaiians are Polynesians, is the “Other” category specific to other Polynesian groups as well? Would it be appropriate for Filipinos, Indonesians, or Okinawans for example to select this category when filling out an application?

Ashkuff says:

Okay, that always confused me, too. So, it’s true that Pacific Islanders don’t really identify with Asians?

Todd says:

I can’t speak for all Pacific Islanders, because there are some islands that are close to the Asian continent and even in parts of Polynesia there are people of Asian descent, such as Chinese who have been there for a long time. Personally, I am most familiar with Polynesians because I have traveled to many of those islands and as I mentioned before I am married to a Tongan. I can say that my Tongan inlaws are very proud of their unique culture and heritage, and would in no way identify as being Asian. Not because they dislike Asian cultures, but because it is simply not what they are!

Polynesians have customs, languages and a history that is completely different from any groups located in continental Asia. There are some hill tribes however in Taiwan that have some characteristics of being Polynesian. Polynesian languages belong to the Austronesian group which spans from Easter Island to Madagascar. In Chile I spoke Tongan to a Rapa Nui (Easter Island) man and we could somewhat understand each other, look on a map and see how far apart these two places are from one another. Polynesians were a seafaring group of people who were the first to venture to the remote islands of the Pacific, this feat has been compared to man reaching the moon.

I could go on about these things, but there are many reasons that Polynesians would find it confusing or even offensive to be tacked on to the Asian category. There are probably many situations similar to this when it comes to categorizing people by race. We are all the same species, so in the end perhaps it shouldn’t matter what race someone is on these applications because it causes too much controversy.

Ashkuff says:

I’ve been told that Brazilian Latinos feel similarly about being lumped in with “Hispanics.”

Erin says:

I can tell you that race beomes a problem when you are beige-coloured, naked, and in a room that is entirely decorated in beige. I had to put one hand on a wall and follow it until I found the door – you know, the old getting-out-of-a-labyrinth trick. The reality is in the materiality.

0_0 says:

Race is a huge problem, Love. There is so much hatred against the “Wasp” and associated minorities. We act like there isn’t and it’s all for the best… because then we’d look racist. That’s one of the huge problems with “RACE Issue” nowadays. Want to be discriminated against? Try being a Caucasian between the ages of 18 and 25. Of course to say such things is highly politically incorrect. But that’s no a race issue. That’s a self righteousness issue. Just to prove that we were wrong. Just so they can have a bad guy and a soap box. That is human not racist. All you need is a line no matter how thin. That questionnaire isn’t “Racialism” as Ace put it. It really is racism.

To quote Morgan Freeman, “You want to know how to end racism. Stop talking about it!”

Ashkuff says:

Heh. Morgan Freeman could say anything with that voice of his, and make it sound official.

Piesmiter says:

SECONDED SO DAMN HARD.

-Signed, lower-middle-class white male age 24.

Ashkuff says:

Same boat.

Ashkuff says:

Lol.

Alucard says:

Being a member of a small ethnic group unrecognized by the US gov’t has made me think often about such matters. The Carpatho Russ are listed as an ethnic minority in Russia, the Ukraine, Poland and others but there is no way to claim minority status in the US.

Ashkuff says:

Ah! Good example. I’ve heard of the Carpatho Rusyns, through a Serbian friend of mine.

Alucard says:

The Carpatho Rusyns were a civilization unto themselves. Highly industrious and highly entrepreneurial. High in the mountains we carved out an easily defensible platform from which do yell down, “Do you really want to go through all that trouble just to attack a country that you aren’t even at war with!!?” . . . “Uhm Well!!! You see my Emperor will be really angry if there isn’t a Russian/Polish/Ukrainian/Romanian/Serbian border moved to the other side of your land” . . . “Then move the border… we don’t care and we wont tell!” . . . “Well… CONGRATS YOU’RE RUSSIAN” . . . “[looks at another Carpatho Russ][unenthusiastically] Yay… Again…”

Ashkuff says:

(Laughs Out Loud) That should be a Monty Python skit.

Erik says:

Wow, that is sooooo Python. More history needs to be written like that.

Erik says:

Of course I wonder what oats would say about Arabs, you know the other descendents of Abraham. Are they white or are they black?

What about the Black Irish for that matter?

Ashkuff says:

Whoa, there are Black Irish?

Erik says:

Yes check out this book:
www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-Wh.....were+black

Ashkuff says:

Neat!

Red_Scottsman says:

The Black Irish more hair color less skin color

Ashkuff says:

Pardon me? I’m not sure I understand.

Red_Scottsman says:

There is a huge misconception among the general populous that the “Black Irish” were African

Ashkuff says:

Huh. So, the Irish had some kind of racial division, based on hair color? If true, that would be crazily useful to know.

I often argue that racial features are pretty much arbitrary. Like, sure, you COULD define race in terms of skin color, but you could just as readily define race in terms of hair or eye color. It would be nice to have an example.

Erik says:

Yes, I was meaning to apply that the Black Irish were actually Black as in from Africa, but that there are even “racial/ethnic” division among what people often consider the “White” race(s).

-V says:

I read somewhere that the black Irish were those who where mixed with Spanish Heritage. Bad storm wrecked some ships there during a war. But the details are hazy, sorry.

Ashkuff says:

Ha! According to the American racial paradigm, the would make the “Black Irish” “Hispanic Irish.” Lol.

Merch-of-Venice says:

I think the Arabs would start having very loud violent convos about bombs if we were forced to share the same land
. . .
Oh
. . .
Wait

Merch-of-Venice says:

oh israel….. theres antoher example for you… Jews were considered non-Caucasian .

Ashkuff says:

Okay, I’m confused. In my (admittedly limited) experience, bombs seem to make pretty popular chatter among Jews and Arabs alike.

oats says:

plz jews are white so are itallians

0_0 says:

Why are we limiting the conversation to “Italian” “Jew” etc. There are so many subdeliniations within each culture. You really want to talk about complex just look at color boundary in China. To this day the lighter skinned elite rule. But this was because of outside influence. *sighs* We’re so much closer to each other than anyone thinks.

Ashkuff says:

Hey, no reason to limit the convo at all! I just-so-happen to know a bunch of Jews and Italians. Totally open to other examples, though. Like your Chinese elites, or Alucard’s Carpatho Rusyns.

Piesmiter says:

What about the original Israeli tribe they found a few years ago and traced back with mitochondrial DNA to the first tribes of Israel? They were very, very dark-skinned black. That might raise a few eyebrows.

Ashkuff says:

Ah yes, I heard about the “Black Jews.” Made some waves among biological and religious anthropologists alike.

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